August 18, 2002
Bad German Alert
The one who calls himself 'Hesiod' provides a textbook case of a rhetorical own goal (if the link doesn't work, it's the topmost entry on August 16th):
"BARF ALERT": A thread about "Future Freepers of America," or as I like to call them, "Peeper Jugen."
CORRECTION: "Juden," has been changed to "Jugen." Thanks to an astute reader.
In short, he tried to call Freepers ('Peepers') Nazis ('Peeper Youth' as in 'Hitler Youth'), but accidentally called them Jews ("Juden"). Oops! I hope that's just ignorance and coincidence rather than subconscious antisemitism.
What's particularly amusing is that he and his "astute reader", working together, can't get it right even on the second try. If you want to compare young Freepers to Hitler Youth and you're pretentious enough to want to do it in German, the phrase would be 'Peeper Jugend', with a D on the end. As far as I know, 'Jugen' is as meaningless in German as in English. (No, it doesn't mean "jugs".)
Of course, if you want to compare young Freepers to Hitler Youth, you're also a total swine (I'm trying to keep my language clean), but that's another question. No, I'm not recommending Free Republic, just observing that even they do not deserve such wholesale abuse as 'Hesiod' aims their way -- however bad his aim. All in all, I feel a little bit like the Roman soldier in Life of Brian, when he catches Brian painting ROMANES EUNT DOMUS on the wall. And the comedown from Hesiod the ancient Greek poet to 'Hesiod' the blogger is even steeper than the drop from Engelbert Humperdinck the composer of Hänsel und Gretel (1893) to Engelbert Humperdinck the contemporary crooner. Too bad copyright on names doesn't extend to 2750 years.
Posted by Dr. Weevil at August 18, 2002 02:47 PM
Fortunately, copyright on names (and titles) doesn't last two days, as it doesn't exist at all.
'Juden' instead of 'Jugend' (or 'Jugen' as he spells it)? Oh dear... That's what the Germans would call 'ein Freudscher Versprecher'.
For the record, I was later informed, via e-mail, that "jugen" was also incorrect.
I elected to leave it the way it was because the post was too old.
Your "antisemitism" charge is laughable propaganda. Goebbels would be proud. ;^)
Hesiod finds the use of his own tactics against him as "laughable". Yep, Dr. Weevil, he just doesn't get it. "Own goal" indeed.
Reply to Pseudo-pseudo-Hesiod:
I didn't "charge" anyone with antisemitism. I just pointed out that so hilariously stupid a mistake must have come either from a combination of gross ignorance and extreme coincidence or from subconscious antisemitism. I offered no hint as to which I thought more likely, and you are welcome to take your pick.
While you're at it, you might want to stop telling lies. Along with a lot of decent people, Free Republic also includes quite a few flakes, wackos, and jackasses, but very few actual Nazis. Your little smiley icon does not get you off the hook for calling me one. It just shows you for the horse's ass you are. And my writings can hardly be "propaganda" if I'm not paid to write them and I actually believe them. I'm not and I do.
P.S. I call you "Pseudo-pseudo-Hesiod" because the works that have come down from archaic Greece with Hesiod's name on them are not all genuine. If the author of the "Shield of Heracles" is already 'Pseudo-Hesiod', that leaves only a double 'pseudo' for the author of 'Counterspin'. That seems about the right measure of distance from reality.
It came from my complete ignorance of the German language in its written form. [I find it interesting, incidentally, that you are so familiar with the German language, and the word "juden" in particular].
As for Freepers being NAZI's, more correctly, many are probably somewhat fascist. More like folowers of Franco or Mussolini. They are against "gun control," of course. But you wonder, sometimes, whether that's because they need to keep that stash of AK-47 ammo and their assault weapons stored in case they are needed for the "revolution."
Incidentally, I didn't call you a NAZI. I just compared your use of propaganda to that of Joseph Goebbels. And thanks for comfirming my orginal comment. Goebbels would certainly be very impressed with you technique.
BTW, its still "propaganda," even if you believe it. If it's information propogated to advance a cause...its propaganda. We all do it.
And in your case, its also disinformation.
And, since you deleted my earlier P.S. I'll link you to a classic Freeper thread, that supports my thesis.
I've saved this comment, so that if you elect to erase it, I'll post it on my blog and publicly flog you for squelching dissenters who call you on your dishonest commentary.
You and Bill Quick deserve each other.
If you are saying that I deleted any comment on this thread, you are lying again. Is that what you are saying?
Gosh, another thinly-veiled "you are an anti-semite" comment - "only a NAZI would know the German word for "Jew""... Interestingly enough, I find it hard to believe that anyone could know anything about Goebbels' propaganda and not know that, unless one were simply dropping names to make unfounded insinuations - or unless one were a horrible scholar.
Huh. and here i thought fascists were pro-gun-control...
>>>Gosh, another thinly-veiled "you are an anti-semite" comment - "only a NAZI would know the German word for "Jew""...<<<
Not all anti-semites are NAZI's. And I never made either claim. Your comment is a ham-handed attempt to tar me with extremist rhetoric.
Goebbels would laugh at you.
>>>Interestingly enough, I find it hard to believe that anyone could know anything about Goebbels' propaganda and not know that.<<<
I don't speak or read German. A point that's pretty obvious. Dr '[E]vil decided to take a cheep shot at me, and I responded.
Are you his "mini-me?"
>>>Huh. and here i thought fascists were pro-gun-control...<<<
Only AFTER they take power.
Since my earlier apology for assuming that you erased my post was, for some strange reason, ALSO deleted, I'll say it again...
If my comments were deleted because of a technical glitch, and not by the moderator, then I apologize for my censorship comments.
Hopefully, this comment sees the light of day.
I have never deleted any comment on this post. Other than the occasional double comment, which I delete as a courtesy to poster and readers, I'm pretty sure that I have deleted no comment on any post since August 3rd, when I deleted some pornographic photos some cowardly anonymous asshole posted in my comment section. I also once deleted a comment about a female warblogger's "snatch", and have deleted some other equally offensive items from time to time, along with a few totally irrelevant posts that seemed to have been written while the author was drunk.
No one else has complained about their comments disappearing, so 'Hesiod' is either dishonest or incompetent. The latter is of course possible: on MT and other systems, you sometimes have to wait quite a while for a comment to 'register'. I'm pretty sure that's where double and triple comments come from: the writer gets tired of waiting and hits the Post button again. If you give up and close the window before the comment registers, it will not appear at all. That has happened to me once or twice.
As for dishonesty: 'Hesiod' accuses me of taking a "cheep [sic] shot" at him. In fact, he made a cheap shot at Freepers, using a German phrase he was too ignorant to get right in two tries with help the second time around. My main point was to make fun of his pretentiousness. No one forced him to use a language of which he is, as he says, completely ignorant. By the way, I don't speak German, and read it very little, though I did have to pass a reading test in it to get my doctorate in Classics. But even before I took my first class in German at age 35, I knew that "judenfrei" means "free of Jews", which is what the Nazis wanted to make Europe and what many Arabs want to make the Middle East. I also knew that Hitler Youth was "Hitlerjugend". Anyone who has read much twentieth-century history knows that much, and knows what a "gauleiter" is and what "SS" stands for. And anyone who has not read much twentieth-century history should probably avoid comparing others to Goebbels. (Quick, what was his first name?) And such a person should probably also avoid making quibbling remarks about how comparing someone to Goebbels is not the same as calling him a Nazi. The difference is small enough to make 'Hesiod' look like a lying capybara (world's largest rodent).
I made no "cheap shot," at "Freepers." They earned it.
>>>And anyone who has not read much twentieth-century history should probably avoid comparing others to Goebbels. (Quick, what was his first name?) And such a person should probably also avoid making quibbling remarks about how comparing someone to Goebbels is not the same as calling him a Nazi. The difference is small enough to make 'Hesiod' look like a lying capybara (world's largest rodent).<<<
And it's not "quibbling" to compare one's propganda/disinformation techniques to JOSEPH Goebbels', without also implying one is a NAZI.
You drew your own conclusion.
>>>My main point was to make fun of his pretentiousness. No one forced him to use a language of which he is, as he says, completely ignorant. By the way, I don't speak German, and read it very little, though I did have to pass a reading test in it to get my doctorate in Classics. But even before I took my first class in German at age 35, I knew that "judenfrei" means "free of Jews", which is what the Nazis wanted to make Europe and what many Arabs want to make the Middle East. I also knew that Hitler Youth was "Hitlerjugend". Anyone who has read much twentieth-century history knows that much, and knows what a "gauleiter" is and what "SS" stands for.<<<
I'm not much of a 20th-entury history maven. Although I've read a few interesting books, such as Allan Bullock's "Hitler and Stalin: Paralell Lives," and Gerhard Weinberg's "A World At Arms: A Global History of World War II."
My primary interest is in ancient history. Which is why I like to compare the chickenbloggers to Cato the Censor.
The fact of the matter is, Dr. '[E]vil is a cheap-shot artist, and is getting what he deserves.
I find Freeper threads with extremist views on a daily basis. Strangely, they never get deleted like thoughtful comments criticizing Bush from the Democratic perspective do.
On Freerepublic, it's more acceptable to advocate massive war crimes, or the attempted murder of a liberal politician, than it is to say something nice about Hillary Clinton.
They earn every exposure they get. And anyone who defends these looney-tunes, is spreading disinformation.
That's what is so amusing about Hesiod, he happily displays his ignorance with every comment or posting.
Here's a hint Hesiod, bile doesn't substitute for wit.
Okay, so maybe you think it should have read "another thinly-veiled "you are a NAZI" comment". But the logical progression would dictate that, since the Nazis were anti-Semitic, "anti-Semitic" is a viable phrase for me to have used. (logic 101: all A (nazis) are B (anti-semites); Since you insinuated A, then you also insinuate B.) I simply chose my initial wording to avoid the semantic redundancy.
huh. if it wasn't an attempt at a Nazi smear, then what exactly is the meaning of "I find it interesting, incidentally, that you are so familiar with the German language, and the word "juden" in particular"? seriously, i want to know what you meant by that.
Mini-me? stop with the stupid cheap shots! Goebbels would laugh at you! alternatively, Goebbels would be proud of your methods! ("mini" is especially ironic, because i'm 6'15", 350lbs, can press 540, and am looking forward to beating Philip comatose with his own arm. hah)
and look at me! steering clear of the Free Republic discussion, because I don't know anything about it! a novel concept!
and what's with your NAZI thing? It's not an acronym like NSDAP.
Look who's talking, Robin.
Hesiod, when I start making daily references to Democrats and Stalin then you can make your little juvenile "look who's talking" comment. Until then, you are just showing that you have nothing to do but demonstrate that you are ignorant and shrill.
>>>Hesiod, when I start making daily references to Democrats and Stalin then you can make your little juvenile "look who's talking" comment.<<<
You mean you ADMIT that Freepers are all Republicans?
Me, I'd be embarrassed as hell if I were a Republican and Freepers were perceived as "representing" my point of view.
Thankfully I'm not.
And while you may not make "daily references to Democrats and Stalin," you certainly link folks, like David Horowitz, who do.
Your hypocrisy is astounding. Truly it is.
You mean you ADMIT that Freepers are all Republicans?
Another demonstration that you have no command of logic, I see. And your use of the word "hypocrisy" reminds me of the line in Goldman's "The Princess Bride" about not understanding the meaning of a word you overuse. Go back to stealing riffs from Democrat Underground, Hesiod.
hey hesiod, why don't you stop sending me inappropriate e-mails you sicko pervert.
To me, the problem is easily solved: If Hesiod can't read or write German, and is completely unfamiliar with the language, as he says he is, he should avoid posting in German. Otherwise he will embarrass himself with grammatical errors, as he has done in this instance.
Sorry, Hesiod: You have no one to blame but yourself for this mess.
>>>To me, the problem is easily solved: If Hesiod can't read or write German, and is completely unfamiliar with the language, as he says he is, he should avoid posting in German. Otherwise he will embarrass himself with grammatical errors, as he has done in this instance.<<<
That was the one and only time I ever posted anything in German.
And instead of chalking it up to a silly mistake, Dr. '[E]vil decides to make a federal case out of it.
That tells me he's petty, small-minded, pinched, and boorish.
Pot meet Kettle, aka Hesiod.
Ah, but in this case, he's also right.
Hesiod, you'd do well to study this page:
And have a few martinis before jumping into the fray on an issue where you're so clearly wrong. It helps, trust me.
"As for Freepers being NAZI's, more correctly, many are probably somewhat fascist. More like folowers of Franco or Mussolini. They are against "gun control," of course."
The Nazi's, the commies, the fascists ALL supported gun control. Any totalitarian political force, such as modern liberalism, supports gun control. Why don't you hop over to the Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership website and read up on how gun control is a necessary step to a later genocide.
It was the case in Turkey and the Armenians, Germany and Jews, in Rwanda and in the Soviet Union.
BTW, I'm a proud FReeper. All FReepers are not Republicans, there are some Democrats, Libertarians, Buchanites and others. There's more intelligent criticism there of Bush and the GOP than you'll find on any halfwit 'RAT website, newspaper, news or magazine.
Authoritarians show up occassionally at Free Republic, but they don't last long, because Free Republic is all about restoring American Liberty, which is the opposite of any liberal-fascist political crap that you can find.
Hesiod and his views are much closer to Mussolini, Hitler or Stalin than anything at FR. You all support gun control, for just one example. You all suppport Public-Private Partnerships, which is another name for Fascist economics.
I didn't think Hesiod could be as bad as reported, until I read his comments here.
Oh, BTW, Dr Weevil, anytime you need an expert in German, just email moi!
So 'Hesiod' posts eight separate comments on this one post, says he tried to post two more that never appeared, and I'm the one making "a federal case" out of it? Teasing 'Hesiod' is more fun than visiting the monkey house at the zoo. Instead of feces, he flings weasely accusations of Nazism that he then denies.